Mandarin Presbyterian Church (MPC)
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
About Concerns With the PC(USA)
On December 4, at a Meeting of the Congregation, Rev. Kevin Pound addressed the recent changes to the Book of Order, which is a part of the Constitution of the PC(USA), and some of the issues currently facing our denomination. There will be several ‘town hall’ meetings where people can come to ask further questions as we go forward. The second of these ‘town hall’ meetings will be coming up soon. Please read the frequently asked questions listed below and email any additional questions. Your questions will be addressed at the next town hall meeting.
Our Mission:
“Loving people to love Jesus Christ through inviting, connecting, and equipping people for personal ministry” We have been “loving people to love Jesus Christ” for 50 years. We are a vibrant church that desires to continue to grow our many ministries so we can serve those who are yet to come. We enthusiastically celebrate and support our children and youth because they are our future. We want to share God’s unconditional love and grace with as many people as we can so we can grow God’s kingdom with devoted followers of Jesus Christ.
Our Core Values:
- Glorify God and enjoy Him
- Be Christ-centered
- Be Biblically faithful
- Have Grace-based relationships
- Be in prayer
- Connect and nurture all for ministry
- Reach out and plan for those who are yet to come
We have developed this list of “Frequently Asked Questions” (FAQ’s) in an effort to inform you about matters in the PC(USA) and their effect on our church. We consider this a “living document” that we will continue to update, change, and add to as we learn more. These questions will be addressed at the January 8 meeting. Some of these questions/answers have come from other congregations, and are used here with their written permission.
1. MPC is a Presbyterian church. What does it mean to be Presbyterian?
- The Presbyterian church traces its roots back to the 16th century and the Protestant Reformation. Our heritage and much of what we believe, began with John Calvin, whose writings pulled together much of the Reformed thinking that came before him. Presbyterians continue today to adhere to what is called Reformed Theology.
- Among those core principles are:
- • The Sovereignty of God – God is the supreme authority throughout the universe.
- • The Authority of Scripture – “The one sufficient revelation of God is Jesus Christ, the Word of God incarnate, to whom the Holy Spirit bears unique and authoritative witness through the Holy Scriptures, which are received and obeyed as the word of God written. The Scriptures are not a witness among others, but the witness without parallel. The church has received the books of the Old and New Testaments as prophetic and apostolic testimony in which it hears the word of God and by which its faith and obedience are nourished and regulated.” (The Confession of 1967).
- • Justification by Grace through Faith – We are saved by our faith and God’s grace, and not by our acts or anything we do.
- • The Priesthood of All Believers – All of us (laity/clergy, women/men, etc.) are called to share this Good News with the whole world.
From a structural/organizational perspective, Presbyterian churches are based on a representative form of government and a connection to other churches. Each congregation elects elders to sit with pastors on a Session which governs their own church. Each church belongs to a Presbytery, a regional body designed to serve the local churches in its area. Representatives from each Presbytery come together every other year at General Assembly, a national meeting, where denomination-wide policies are created or modified by vote. The next General Assembly will be held in July of 2012.
2. What is the PC(USA)?
Presbyterian Church (USA) or PC(USA) is the branch of Presbyterianism to which MPC belongs. It was born of a merger between two Presbyterian denominations in 1983 to become the fifth largest Protestant denomination in the United States. The PC(USA) is one of nine Presbyterian denominations in the United States. The national offices are in Louisville, Kentucky. The PC(USA) is governed by its constitution, made up of The Book of Order and The Book of Confessions. For more information, visit pcusa.org
3. What influence does the PC(USA) have over our church?
The influence of the PC(USA) over MPC comes in both how we govern the church (polity) and in our theology.
We have a Book of Order which contains sections on church government, discipline and worship. We also have a Book of Confessions which consists of 11 historic confessions of faith that we agree to be guided by. The continuing tension we live under in the PC(USA) is that both of these important documents are subject to change. Many of our differences with the PC(USA) center on the ongoing proposals for change in The Book of Order and Book of Confessions.
4. Do the changes in the denomination change who we are at MPC?
No. Our explicit standards for church leadership have not changed. We have been, are, and will continue to be a loving and vibrant church reaching out to our community and the world to spread the Good News that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We are a flourishing family of Christians who have truly impacted the world not only here in Northeast Florida, but around the globe with our participation in, and support of, missions from Cuba to Ethiopia, to China, to Costa Rica, and beyond.
5. What is Amendment 10A, and why does its passage matter?
Amendment 10A, which was passed this summer (2011), is a major shift in our qualifications, or standards, for who can be ordained as ministers, elders, or deacons. It has also made significant changes to our Book of Order. Prior to passage, our constitution stated “those who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture…among these standards is the requirement to either live in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness (G-6.0106b).” This standard was expressly in regard to all matters of human sexuality, not just homosexuality. Amendment 10A replaced that language with the following:
“Standards for ordained service reflect the church’s desire to submit joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life (G-1.0000).”
While “submitting joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ” sounds good on the surface, what that means is unclear without specifics. In the absence of a clear standard centered in God’s Word, it opens the door for the ordination of people who aren’t living “in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness”. The new language in Amendment 10A goes on to say “Governing bodies shall be guided by Scripture…” We feel strongly that we should be faithful to Scripture, not guided by Scripture. The importance of the authority of Scripture is stated in The Confession of 1967 where it states “…the Holy Scriptures, which are received and obeyed as the word of God written”.
6. What is causing MPC’s concern with the PC(USA)?
Many people have asked for the “main” reason(s) why we should be concerned about the direction of the PC(USA). There is no single reason or incident that has led to this concern. MPC core values are anchored in the authority of Scripture (MPC core value to “Be Biblically faithful”) and the uniqueness and Lordship of Christ (MPC core value to “Be Christ-centered”). For over 30 years a growing minority within the PC(USA) has sought to compromise the authority of scripture and the uniqueness and Lordship of Christ. A key reason for our concern is what some are calling a “creeping tolerance of theological pluralism” within the PC(USA). “Creeping tolerance of theological pluralism” means that increasingly there is a wide range of unbiblical beliefs about Jesus held and affirmed within the PC(USA). Over time an increasing percent in the PC(USA) are taking positions that are inconsistent with the historical tenants of our faith. With greater frequency, the moderates that make up the majority of the denomination are voting with the revisionists and are choosing to no longer guard orthodoxy. This is how Jesus becomes a way rather than the way to God, how compassion becomes unhinged from truth, how theological diversity becomes more important than discipleship and how social action becomes more important than Christian spiritual formation. We believe:
- In the absolute Lordship of Jesus Christ;
- In the unquestionable means of salvation for the whole world through Him;
- In the infallible authority of God’s Word in all matters of faith.
Because the internal conflict in the PC(USA) continues to grow it has become clear that this has, is, and will continue to detract from our primary mission of bringing people to Jesus Christ. Our desire is to bring People to Christ, rather than possibly continuing to expend energy in discussing actions in the denomination that continue to move away from Christ and the authority of Scripture.
7. Is our concern with the PC(USA) something new that is being caused by the recent passage of Amendment 10A?
No. Throughout our 50 year history, MPC has not compromised on the authority of Scripture or the uniqueness and Lordship of Jesus Christ. Historically, our session has, on numerous occasions, formally affirmed our conviction to these core values. To view some examples of this, please refer to: Resolution of the Session of MPC. We have had explicit standards for those in authority (pastors, elders, and deacons) and teachers (Sunday school, youth programs, etc.) that acknowledge our strong belief that we should uphold the standards God gave to us in the Scriptures. Our concerns have been there for decades. We have attempted to use our influence to assuage those concerns via letters to our Presbytery, discussions with our Presbytery, attendance at General Assembly meetings, and submission of formal overtures to our General Assembly. The recent passage of Amendment 10A has served to highlight the seriousness of our concerns.
8. Is the primary reason for our concern due to the push in the PC(USA) to ordain practicing homosexuals?
As stated previously, for over 30 years a growing minority within the PC(USA) has sought to compromise the authority of scripture and the uniqueness and Lordship of Christ. However, the passage of Amendment 10A has served to further highlight our concerns. The departure of ordination standards from clear biblical principles and the Book of Order is just one of many examples of the trend in the PC(USA) to compromise the Authority of Scripture and the uniqueness and Lordship of Christ.
We have also seen international Presbyterian churches cut ties with the PC(USA). The Presbyterian church in Mexico has left the PC(USA), and other international Presbyterian churches are seriously considering doing the same.
In addition, overtures seeking approval for Presbyterian ministers to perform same-sex marriages are already on the agenda for the next General Assembly meeting being held this July in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This issue was extremely close to passing in the previous General Assembly held in 2010.
Officers and pastors are called to serve under God’s grace, recognizing and repenting of their sin. Being sinless is not the qualification. Being repentant is. It is that repentance, and a desire to be faithful to the Lord, that qualifies a person for office. What is happening now is that people are trying to redefine God’s standards for our behavior in a way that is contrary to His Word. This is significant because it overturns 2,000 years of church history and precedent.
We are not singling out any group or behavior as different from any other. The issue is in regard to the Authority of Scripture and the Lordship of Jesus Christ. We believe the Scripture is both infallible (without fail in the truth God desires to communicate) and inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Therefore, it is authoritative in our lives. Jesus affirmed and upheld this as well, treating the Scriptures as the divinely inspired Word of God (Luke 24:44-45).
Further, if Jesus is the Son of God, then He is not only our Savior, but our Lord. He calls us to a life of obedience (John 14:15). Therefore, what God commands, we obey. Trusting His plan and purpose is always better than trusting our own, even when we do not understand it fully. If we love God, we will obey Him, and his standards are revealed in His Word.
9. Isn’t this issue the same as women’s ordination a few years back?
While some would like to equate the debate over women’s ordination with our current debate on ordination standards, the two are not the same. The cultural climates may offer similar cries of justice and inclusion, but this would mean we submit ourselves to the tides of culture instead of the Authority of Scripture.
The paternalistic nature of culture over time has limited women’s roles in the church, but Jesus overturned that trend. Jesus treated women in a remarkable way. He valued them, taught them, listened to them, and included them in his wider band of disciples. In fact, women were chosen by God to inform the disciples about the empty tomb. The standing of women in Scripture expands and changes through the ministry of Jesus and continues in the early church. In Acts and other New Testament writings, women were prophets, apostles, and named as co-workers with Paul in ministry. These examples are wholly different than the Scriptural witness we have regarding homosexual practice and the covenant of marriage.
10. How has our Presbytery (St. Augustine) responded to these issues?
Our Presbytery voted against the passage of the change the first three times it came up. However, the Presbytery voted in favor of passage of Amendment 10A this past February.
11. How do our Pastors feel about these issues?
Our Pastors have significant concerns about the direction of the PC(USA) and its impact on MPC. However, they are all committed to MPC. They and the session are in serious prayer, study, and discernment over this, and will continue to do so as the process unfolds.
12. So, are you saying that MPC is going to leave the PC(USA)?
No decision has been made by our pastors or the session regarding staying with or leaving the PC(USA) . We recognize the importance of this matter, and its potential impact on our congregation, staff, and many ministries. We are clearly in the discernment and investigation phase, and are studying the myriad of issues such as the impact on pastors/staff retirement and insurance, property ownership, where would we go, etc. if we were to recommend leaving. As this process unfolds, we will continue to research these issues and communicate the impact and options to the Pastors, staff, and congregation prior to making any recommendation to stay or leave the PC(USA).
13. Since we have the same ability to make local decisions about whom we choose to invite as pastors and about our theological stance, why are we concerned?
The recent changes to our Book of Order still provide freedom in the selection of pastors and the theological stance of the local church. However, over a 30 year period within the PC(USA) a growing minority has sought to compromise the authority of scripture and the uniqueness and Lordship of Christ in such a way that it has created a conflicted witness to the world. Churches like MPC are continually called to explain why they are not like other parts of the denomination that embrace non-orthodox positions. This defensive posture reduces the impact of the ministries and mission of MPC. In addition, the internal conflict in the PC(USA) has continued to grow to the point that MPC leadership has serious concern that PC(USA) actions may have negative implications for MPC. We want to focus our efforts to bring people to Jesus Christ, rather than to continue to expend energy in discussing actions in the denomination that continue to move away from historical beliefs regarding Christ and the Authority of Scripture.
14. Have we talked with other churches about our concerns?
Yes, we have met and spoken with dozens of other churches. Some of them are pleased with the current direction, some are concerned and considering their options, and some have left (or are in the process of leaving) the PC(USA).
15. Do we own our property?
We would like to give you a direct “yes” or “no” answer. However, this is something that’s unclear. We do have title to our property. However, it appears that the PC(USA) may hold the property “in trust”. In 1983 when the PC(USA) was established through the merger of two Presbyterian denominations, our session signed a document which they were confident made it clear that MPC owned its property. Through discussions with our Presbytery, it has become apparent that this document only removed our property from new requirements of the PC(USA), while maintaining the previously existing requirement that it be held in “trust” of the denomination. Our committee is still studying and investigating this issue, and will keep the congregation informed as information becomes available.
16. What action has the Session taken?
Our session has been openly discussing the many on-going changes in the PC(USA) including the meaning and impact of Amendment 10A both before and since it passed as well as the changes to the Book of Order. We have formed a three-person committee to actively monitor, study, and report on these changes to the full session and our Pastors. Members of this committee, others on the session, and our Pastors have attended meetings where the changes, their impact, and options have been discussed. Neither the committee, other members of the session, or our Pastors have taken any action towards confirming our intent to pursue any specific option. If the session, after deliberate and serious prayer, study, and discernment, does come to the point that they feel MPC should consider an option to change our relationship with the PC(USA), all they can do is recommend that position to the congregation. The Presbytery would be involved in the process, and only the congregation can make the actual decision to change our relationship after a vote of a majority of our members.
17. If I have concerns or questions about this, who should I talk to?
Members of the session’s committee, other members of the session, as well as our Pastors are versed in these matters and would be happy to discuss them with you. You may email any additional questions.
